Live Blogging! Chapters 8 and 9 of Gatsby
See reminders on the post below. Enjoy!
posted by Kristin L | 8:58 AM
About Me
- Name: Kristin L
My favorite place in the world to be is underwater. My second favorite place is the front of a classroom.
- Live Blogging: Chapter 8 Fishbowl
- HOT HOT HOT! Chapter 7 in Gatsby
- Uncle Walt
- Speaking of Metaphors...
- Her Letter to the World
- Essay of Place Feedback
- Freedom?
- Douglass, Publishing, and Purpose
- Civil Disoedience
- Into the Wild
175 Comments:
This comment has been removed by the author.
ok well this is sarah Palmer, my name is messed up.. but this is me!
nice name eh?
we ballin
gym monkeys are pretty super
straight thuggin
This comment has been removed by the author.
This conversation reminds me of Nathan's blog about the heat being associated with tension and passion.
E-LAMB LAYS DOWN THE LAW WITH THAT MORE THAN OUTSTANDING ANSWER!
I agree with Erin how the weather represents the mood and the different emotions of the book. Well said Erin!
haha it was email when i was like 6 so i always use it when i make names. haha
On this topic, why is Gatsby killed in a pool, a cool place?
erins a G. Nate your comments are just creepy.
Agreed for sure. It always changing. like bipolar eh?
what do you mean Jordan?
yes, I agree with Spencer, I think that the weather, though sort of subtle, really makes the mood of the story exaggerated. I thought that Erin's comment was really interesting, and now that I think about it, I agree becuase it does cool down when the romance is sizzling out.
I think that he is killed in the pool that he has never used before, because it parallels how just when he is about to have Daisy for the first time, it is taken away from him.
His dream/love died out...kind of like what erin said
Well in the chioce between love and money i think that Daisy doesn't want to chose one or the other, not because she wants both but maybe because she doesn't want either. If that makes sense, doesn't know what she wants so she forces herself to think that she wants love and money.
to spencer, he may be killed in the pool to symbolize that he has found peace somehow. the water is calming, and i think it represents tranquility. hencer, the reason why he is killed in the pool.
love money or practicality?? hmm tough dicision but I think that she made this decision a long time ago and she married Tom for his money. practicality came in seconed because it goes hand in hand with money. She left love behind when she said "I do"
I disagree with Chritine. I dont think that Daisy is at all power hungry. She doesnt want power, she wants money! Shes a money grubbing girl
Gatsby was floating, choosing to let the waves to carry him to a direction. Gatsby probably was questioning where he should go. BAck to the drawing board.
I think the water is cool and calming. Gatby realizes his dream is dead and the water is the peace of letting go. The heat is gone.
Gatsby was released from the pain of Daisy's rejection when he died. The water could represent the cleansing powers and its ability to wash away past wrongs.
I think he is killed in a pool because he has finally begun to accept life and is no longer heated and irrational.
The weather, just like the moods and emotions of the book, are similar but different at the same time. Love is fickle
Another question revolving around what spencer asked, what is the significance that this was the first time that Gatsbuy had ever been in his own pool and he was killed?
I think Daisy is a completely practical person. She only gives love if she knows she want suffer from it. She loved Gatsby when she thought she has security but when she found out he was poor she moved on to someone she could give love to that in return could give her security.
I agree with spencer that heat plays a part in setting the mood of the story. Gatsby and Tom fight over Daisy on the hottest day of the summer, then after the fight Gatsby gets killed in the cool pool.
having to do with spencer's comment on gatsby being killed in he pool, i think it is interesting that he had never used it, and the one time he every has he gets killed, and had he not stopped his servant from draining he may have seen mr. wilson coming and not have died
Awesome! I totally agree with Megan, Em, and surprisingly mista slaps.
Spencer,I am thinking about your question of if there is a significance to Gatsby being killed in a cool place (the pool), and I am not sure if I feel there is a guge significance to it. I think that maybe its more that Gatsby is surrounded by water at the end, everything spills out, and he is drowned in all of the superficial lies and feelings of his life.
To Spencer:
Did Gatsby really accept his life, or did he merely lapse into apathy?
I don't think that if gatsby had actually gotten daisy that they would have been happy. I think that, like many people have already said, the weather reflects the romance between Daisy and Gatsby.
It is interesting that water brought Gatsby wealth and it also brings him death.
I think it is also significant that Gatsby says he has never been in the pool prior to the murder. It goes unused, he cannot have peace because he cannot let go.
I think that Gatsby was killed in a pool was because it was a place where his body no longer had tension, it was just floating freely. I thought that when Fitzgerald explained the blood drifting in the water was creepy, but claming.
With the pool, it as if he had never had the desire to bath and cleanse himself. Finally when he does, he has built up so many enemies that he is unsuccessful in his cleansing. He dug himself too deep
daisys not practical, shes a shallow whore. she only wants to give love for a selfish purpose, so that someone will love her back. someone who only "loves" someone because they can offer them money and security is nothing but purposeless slime.
Yeah Dan HUH!! i somewhat agree with your comment that you cant love two people at once. I think that you can have love for multiple people at a time just like you can have love for your mom your dad and your whole family, you can have love in different ways for different people. I just think that Daisy doesn;t know how to balance it out. And she doesnt know who to give more of her love too.
I think it says that nice guys get shot...i mean, not literraly, but that the nice guys are the "wimps" and that the people doing the bad stuff are the "ballas"
Ina way I agree with chris. Daisy loves moneybut she doesn't just love money she wants love as well. but she compromised true love for what she thought was love, and also lots of money, when she married Tom.
wut do you mean by he has begun to accept his life spencer?
In response to the gym monkey, I think his first use of the pool represents that he has seperated himself from the insecurities common to the crowd he participates in. He releases himself from his greed and desire and is able to simply die.
I found it interesting that Nick never says that Gatsby is dead-he merely states that he wasn't breathing.
but yes to sarah, i agree that it is possible to love mulitple people at once. and also that there are differnt types of love to be had and to be given.
I don't think that Gatsby accepted his life in the sense that he could never be as happy with Daisy as he was in his dreams of her. He may have accepted the fact that he may not ever be with her like it was in the past before he left, but he never let the idea of Daisy go.
I think that Gatsby didn't have much to live for anymore in that society. Maybe he could finally rise above the others. I guess that's why it kind of makes sense that he was killed. He was out of place from society.
I agree with Michael that Daisy is shallow and simply "loves" because she wants love in return. I also agree with Dan that you cannot love two people at once
I agree with Spencer, and I also think that the only way Gatsby could find peace was in his death.
Its possible to love two people at once, but you can only have one TRUE love
you can love somoebody, but to TRULY love someone, thats differnt
Spencer: but he didnt chose to die, so when you say that he was able to die, im not sure if that is relavent because he did not chose his death..
Did Gatsby want to die??
I like Sarah's comment about the blood drifting out over the water. In a way, I think that this too represents Gatsby symbolic "return" to contenment and to the earth.
he didnt choose to die,but he was already almost dead on the inside, where it counts, as he had already accomplished all that he wanted in life: To get daisy again.
I agree with Emily about the not breathing part. Do you think Nick had a hard time accepting Gatsby was dead?
I agree with Jessica K that Gatsby was, in a twisted way, meant to be killed because he didn't fit into society anymore. He built up everything on false impressions and it finally came back to him in the end. It almost seems that because of his lifestyle his type of fate just seemed completely fitting.
I think love is black and white. Either you love someone or you dont. There is no inbetween. Therfore you cannot love two people at once because one is not truly love.
I completely disagree with Dan and Jordan, I think that you can love two people at once. I think like we discussed earlier, there are many different kinds of love, and I think that it is very possible to love two different people for different reasons. I think Daisy loved Tom and gatsby for different reasons.
Does nick look up to Gatsby?
i completely disagree with chris's statement about love! I think you can have more than one true love. As Peter LaFleur says in Dodgeball "There's somebody out there for everybody, and sometimes there's somebody's for one person. I like to call that the jackpot." I think that you can have more than one true love. For instance, if you are married to someone and they are your true love but they die, you can still find someone else and have them be your true love as well.
on pg 162 it says “…he must have felt that he had lost the whole warm world, paid a high price for living too long with a single dream.” Because he lost the warmth of love/lust, he is destined to be left in a cold place such as the pool.
*DID Nick look up to gatsby?
Answering Emily's question I think Gatsby was acceptin his new life but also not doing anything with his new life. So he was accepting while still being apathetic.
You make a valid point Sarah. I don't mean that he wanted to die, but rather, he was capable of dying because he had come to terms with the insecurities that had plagued him for so long.
kyle, great comment, i totally agree with it, I think that Nick doesn't want to like gatsby, but he can't stop being friends with him after everything they've been through together and how mysterious he was.
I think that Gatsby didn't choose to die, but he also didn't really care if he died. I agree with Michael, that he was dead inside. His physical death was the final part in his downfall.
In response to Natalie's question, I don't think that Gatsby wanted to die. He wanted a release from the waiting for daisy and the loneliness of his life, but I don't think that he had a death wish. He wanted to be happy with someone who loved him and who he loved back.
I don't really know if Gatsby wanted to die. I think that in the back of his mind he didn't want to die, because of what he thought could have happened with Daisy. But at the same time he is always so lonely, and he seemed satified with life, but like his life could have been so much better. Great question!
chris: no i dont think he does. he just sort of observes him from a removed state, almost as if the gatsby was an animal in a cage.
I agree with sarah and michael in that you can love more than one person because there are many different types of love. I think Daisy only loves Tom and Gats because they both love her. Her love for them is greedy. She only loves them when they are with her, rich, and showing their love for her.
did nick look up at gatsby when?
Its very intersting to change point of views among the three, Gatsby, Tom, and Daisy. Daisy wanted 2 characteristics, Tom wanted to have a prized wife, Gatsby wanted to have Daisy all for love BUT Daisy does not love neither of these men because of their wants. Their interests are on seperate levels.
I totally disagree with Michael. He was not dead inside. He was alive for the first time in a long time.
No i agree with milt if your true love dies, there will be someone else. But if you are married to someone they are your true love (hopefully) and there IS NO TRUE LOVE that you can find in anyone else at THAT time
To Milt:
Let me make my statement more clear. You can only TRULY love one person at a time. You can't have 3 true loves at once. If your true love dies, and you find someone else, great. You have a new true love, but you still only have ONE.
alright,comprimise: he was content and finished with his life, as far as goals go.
to supermonkeyblablabla:
throughout the entirety of the story.
Yeah i agree with Kelly that Daisy only loves the two men because they love her, and also i think that she is trying to balance them and not give up either one because she simpily loves the attention until it blows up in her face. Then it seems that she wants no part of it. (the hotel room)
I also want to make refference to the ghosts that "breath air like dreams." His dream is air, a gust of wind, calming but soon vanishing forever. This whole segment is describing Gatsby's emotions at his death. He realizes everything is hollow and frail. He is able to let go. His life is a watery mist. He loses nothing when he dies. I believe he wanted to die just as he wanted to die in the war.
I think Nick did look up to Gatsby in a way. but there were some things about Gatsby that Nick didn't like.
i think that part of gatsby wanted to, in response to what natalie said, I think that he realizes that Daisy is stupid egotistical girl who only wants to be with him for his money and that in a way, with all the love he has for her, he just wants this whole thing to be over because he knows that he is going to be hurt by it in the end. But then a part of him just wants to stay alive because Daisy is all he has ever had, and to lose her, even tho she doesn't truly love him, would kill him anyway.
spencer/sarah, I think that Gatsby is finally ready to let go of Daisy, and feeling that loss I think that he in a way wants to die. So even if he had tried to save himself from Wilson, I don't think that he would have
Michael: Are you saying that Gatsby was content with his life when he died?
I don't think Nick looked up to Gatsby. I believe Nick has a paternal feeling for Gatsby. He is the one to stay with Gatsby when he was killed and he was the one to organize his funeral and find people to come. In fact, I think Nick looked down on Gatsby.
I'm not certain how I feel about this love conundrum. I think there is no limit to the love we can give, but I also believe that you can only have one true love at a time.
yea
well chris, i would have to think about that one, i think it's possible, but very rare to have more than one true love at a time, but yes i think most of the time you can only have one at a time.
to spencer:
thank you
About loving two people at once: you can love both your parents equally, so you can love to people at once, but you have to keep in mind what kind of love you are talking about, so can you only truly love one person at a time? (like romantically, does that make sense?)
Agreed with spencer. Love can be given in the forms of say brotherly love etc to many people.
to milt:
im glad we're in agreement
I don't know if Nick necissarily looked up to Gatsby, but I think that he definently had a deeper connection to him somehow.
But what is the significance that his back was turned to Wilson when he shoht him?
I disagree with Chris, I think that you can truly love more than one person at a time. You can love many people at a time but in different ways or for different reasons. I don't think that love can be restricted and that there are rules for who you can love. You can truly love more than one person at a time and out of those people but still love one more than another.
i concur with spencer, but how MUCH LOVE YOU GIVE to somebody is measurable, but total giveable quantity of love is infinite.
I agree with Emilee. Gatsby's existence revolved around Daisy, and when he lost her, he lost his spiritual life. When he lets go of her, he also releases his inner drive, and he is able to greet death peacefully.
Spencer, do you think that love (anykind of love) can really exist? especially in a society like this?
what is true love then? I think that we need to answer that first becuase how do you know that Daisy was Gatsby's "true" love in the first place??
To chris:
You're welcome you big attractive man.
YAY my name finally changed!!
I dont see HOW it is possible for someone to TRULY love more than one person at a time. (romantically speaking. for clarification)
to chris: me too
ya Emily P. I am wondering the same thing. Can true love exist in this society?
to bessie:
yes, i belive that you can love more than one person at a time, but only one true love.
how would you feel if your husband said he truly loved you, and but then he truly romanticly loved another woman as well?
I Completely Agree with Chris. you can only have one true love at a time. So what Dadisy is doing is not TRUE love. I don't think she is even capable of true love. I think that she has been in this cycle of using people for their money and attention for so long that she has built a wall around herself that will not allow true love into her life.
I believe that you cannot love two people at once, well not in the same way. I think that you can only have one true love at a time but you can love many others with different types of love. But I also believe that you can have another true love after losing your first.
to spencer:
;-)
To sarah's question, I think that being shot from the back imitates how the whole society is deceitful and does everything behind other's backs.
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why not, jordan its totally possible. to have a true, soulful connection romantically with two people is possible. you must not have a heart.
There is a different between Agape (brotherly love) and the love you have for your wife/husband. With the first love, it is possible to feel this love for many different people, but I think that you can only love one "soulmate" at a time.
You can love only one person at once, for your true love. You can't love two people the exact equal amount of love, true love, or like parental love. You love each and every different person. You love every person differently, and each love cannot be measured, so no love is the same.
to natalie:
thanks natalie, you rule!
Prad-o-rama, I think that true love not only can exist, but must exist especially in a society like this.
Love to me is the interaction of two souls, with no care, with no insecurities, happiness in its purest form.
Just a question to throw out there.
IN order to achieve the American Dream, one must suffer right? But if a child is born into a rich family, is he/she doomed to be poor or if not him his children, a regression. Could there be a reversal of the American Dream?
okay, emilee prado, you are like the biggest pessimist ever when it has to do with this book. of course it is possible to have love in this society, is there very much love, no. But that does not mean that there cannot be any, because i think that Gatsby is truly in love with Daisy. I do not think that she is in love with him anymore, but i think that there is one person who, if they came and swept her off her feet, she would be in love with them and she has just not found that person yet, and i think also that tom is in love with myrtle even tho he is married to daisy.
wow good comment megan! haha yeah i agree, i think that the fact that Wilson couldnt face him is significant of the shady charcters that are represented in this society.
I think that Gatsby loved Daisy, but not as a true love. He was just more obsessed with having her; which seemed like his goal in life.
Bessie: if you TRUELY love more than one person at a time then where is the TRUTH in it? you will be lying to one of the people you supossivey "LOVE".
emilee, I think that love can exist in any society. Love doesn't depend on the society as a whole, it depends on the people. Was there true love in this society? I don't think there was, but that was the people.
I'm going in! Catch you later!
Michael. you cannot truly love two women. equally at least. As someone previously said, if your wife told u she loved you and then she also truly loved someone else, i mean come on. first of all that would suck. but second, one of the two would not be TRUE love... and YES I DO HAVE A HEART...
to Dan, i dont even know what to say that. But it was a good comment/ question!!
I dissagree with Jessica K. Gatsby was the only thing in the society Nick found that had somestance. He says to Gatsby, "Your worth more then the lot of them combined". Why Nick admires Gatsby is what's more a mystery to me. Was it merely his smile? Was it sympathy? I think that the Nick idolizes him because he believes in humanity and in the future for so long.
To Alyssa:
I don't know if "true" love can exist in this society. Gatsby comes the closest to it, but he falls in love with the idea of Daisy, not Daisy as a person. In order to fully love someone, you have to be able to accept them with their faults. Gatsby doesn't do this.
Just because Daisy doesnt love them equaly doesnt mean that she doesn't love them both..
Does true love represent the same thing to all people??
What is the accepted idea of true love in this world that we live in?
I disagree with Milt. In the society that this book describes, there doesn't seem any possible way for any person to truly love another. The focus is too much upon money, popularity, and success.
Sweet connection Megan! I think you are totally right about the sybolism in that. I think that throughout this book, Fitsgerald conveys most of his messages through symbolism.
Emileeeeee you are crazy! In this society love HAS to exist, if there is no love, there is no life, and if there is no life, why is there even a society!
When Spencer said that Wilson is the most pure character in the book, I dont know if we can really tell, becasue I feel like we didnt get to know him on the level that we get to know Gatsby and Daisy
I completely agree with what Spencer is saying right now. Wilson was the only honest person in this book. He was a person that did have true love, just Myrtle didn't love him back.
Wilson is overrated by Spencer. If Gatsby was the equivilent of Wilson he would have killed Tom for taking Daisy from him. Wilson and Gatsby are put in similar situations, losing their loves, but Gatsby avoids murder.
Sarah:
But do we EVER see an example of true love?
oooo, dan: interesting comment, i really like that. I think that it is definitely that way! If you are born into a rich family then you are doomed to a sad pathetic life where you never can do anything good enough to feel good about yourself because it's not like you can outdo the family you live in. I think that it is easier to make people proud if you start as a low poor person than if you are a rich person who is in the higher social class.
I agree with Spencer, in that he is one of the most moral men in this book becaus it seems that he just truely loved his wife and he was trying to make an honest living without doing any shady business he isnt involved with the drug deals or any of that, he just wants to move west with his wife so that she can love him again and not stray anymore
Was gatsby not honest? I mean, everyone has faults, but gatsby was....pretty honest-ish.
I agree with Megan, he was shot in the back because it reflects the society Gatsby was involved in. However, I also think that Gatsby had turned his back on following the current society (shown by his not drinking)and because he had his back turned to that society he was killed from behind.
Jessica -- How can we know that Wilson truley loved Myrtle? We don't know very much about him. Did he do something to her which drove her to cheat on him?
You can have true love in any society. If a person chooses to be corupted by the society then it is not possible for them to have true love. But if that person resists the peressures of society then they can have true love. it depends on the person Not the society
Pure can relate to the sanity, how one can create the right in society. I dont want to get philosophical but, maybe the man who changes, who disagrees with their actions but causes change is pure to the society.
KYLE N SAYS:
When relating to Gatsby's death, one particular mantra comes to mind: "What goes around, comes around". Years of living a lie finally caught up to Gatsby.
emily, yes we do see examples of true love! i think that first, wilson is definitely in love with myrtle, and i think tom is also in love with myrtle, and i think that myrtle also loves tom, but not wilson
EMILY:
I think that throuhout the book we get little snippets of love from daisy, but if you are thinking of in the hotel room, that is just Daisy being backed into a corner and freaking out cause she is caught red handed lying to her two "loves." but during the book i think she did
"The rooms have faces and the dogs have stems."
How do you think that quote relates to the story?
Emily:
Each person is truly in love with themselves. Also, true love can mean truly loving someone, but not as a soul mate.
I disagree with Milt. If a person is born into a well off family they are not doomed to a sad pathetic life. I think Nick is an example of this. He was from a wealthy family and I think he has a better life than most of the people in this society.
JORDAN
(Ya kyle is using mine as well so ill put my name at the top of my posts)
Whoa. I don't know which Sarah you were talking to Emily, sorry if it wasn't me ;)
chris....
what quote is that..
Sorry Natalie I must disagree with your statement. Society shapes us, shapes our personality our lives how we act, society is essential to create any relationship. Hate is developed from society, love is an image portrayed by society.
Mackenzie:
I think that Gatsby did not turn away from the society completely, but he gave that illusion. Just like you looked at him from above, you would see his reflection in the water. I think that he is only giving the illusion that he is not involved with the society.
sarah:
a good one
SARAH D: she is talking to me haha
okay K.O (Kelly Oliver): I think that wilson for sure loved myrtle! I think that the thing he did to make her cheat was loved her too much. i think that myrtle is probably pretty good looking and that wilson is so happy to be with her and he is so in love with her that he controls her to an extent because he is so scared to lose her, as spencer is saying right now all he wants to do is be with myrtle all the time
to jordan: if she said she also truly loved someone else, and she chose them, then i still get to keep the house. shes outta there
Chris:
haha ok well do explain it then.. how do you think it relates to the book?
Chris that is a really interesting question...That quote is kind of weird, but I think that he is sort of saying that everything is watching. Everything has life.hmmm..i dont know
Nick is someone who can't integrate into society. This makes him credible in my opinion. He begins to integrate when he begins his relationship with Jordyn, but leaves again as he begins to feel contempt fot Jordyn. "I was sick of them, and suddenly that included Jordyn."
Oh okay becasue I made a comment too. Wow that went way over my head haha.
nah wilson's weak sauce. i dont think he really loved her, she was always just kind of there, na'mean? I think hes just torn up about her because her CARED about her, not LOVED her, and hes pissed cuz she got runover.
I disagree that Gatsby was ready to die, but I do agree that it was good for him to die. If he hadn't there would have been more conflict for everybody. The situation was extremely complicated.
If Gatsby had still been alive, how would he have reacted to Daisy leaving? Is it possible he would have killed himself anyway?
JORDAN: to michael
HA well ya that would be a good situation i guess. but in that case that would mean she doesnt truly love you then. She truly loves the other guy
To Nathan: i agree i think the fact that Nick is the narrator illustrates the fact that he isn't integrated into the society because being the narrator kind of keeps you out of the sotry; almost like you are a bystander.. (sorry for spelling kakos)
sarah:
i think that it realates because whereever they go in their town, they always put on a new face for who they're with.
Also, i think that dogs have stems just kind of just makes you think and realzie who stupid some stuff is and the whole affair with gatsby and daisy that its just stupid that gatsby is still pursuing it.
I kind of agree with Nathan, but I think that Nick wants to be in the socitey, but everyone clings to him and makes him a part of the socitey. At the end, I think that Nick didn't want the memory of being in a part of the socitey.
Laptop is dead. lata
I don't agree with Jorda H.'s comment that gatsby died because "what goes around comes around" because I don't think the the life Gatsby lived was immoral, he was alone and I think that he died because there was nothing more for him to do in life. By dying he was purified, like Caitlin said in the inner circle, and he was released from his inner conflicts, it had nothing to do with something he had done wrong in the past.
To Milt:
I don't think that Tom is in love with Myrtle-I think he is in love with the freedom and power that Myrtle brings to him. He admires her vitality and love of life, which he lacks.
To the Sarahs:
I feel that in order to truly love someone, you have to be willing to expose your own vulnerabilities and your soul to another person, and they have to accept you for who you are. I never see this in the book. While Gatsby gives Daisy a glimpse into his soul, he never receives anything back from her.
Spencer's question from the inner circle: Did Gatsby lead a worth while life??
To spencer in the circle: i think that he did, he was not wealthy yhis whole life. He had to work his way up and i dont think it is for us to judge weather or not someones life is worth while.
he didnt have frieends, only people who wanted to get smashed at his house and party in a fancy place.
milt: I agree with you about Wilson controlling her to much because he wanted to keep her with him, but that doesn't mean its true love. It may just be lust because he wants her with him instead of someone else
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